Debian. But Why Debian?

[charlie]

i'm very curious. what's so great about debian over other linux distributions? is it just the package and distribution system (apt)? or are there other things?

there's always that ongoing battle about which distribution of linus or BSD you like most. so what's the story with debian?

=T

[knightfoo]

Linux in general is all about choice. The reason there is not one official Linux distribution is because everyone has different needs and they like to be able to choose a distribution that fits their needs best.

Debian is the most widespread non-commercial Linux distribution. The Debian Project (http://www.debian.org/) is a non-profit organization run by a group of volunteers. This is probably what sets Debian apart from the other major distributions. While RedHat, Mandrake, SuSe, etc are worried about their numbers for this quarter, the Debian developers are focused on building something that works, something that they would be proud to put their name on. The Debian Project has very strict policies that control everything from how packages are named to where files are placed on the system.

The packaging system which Debian is built around is arguably the best out of any Linux distribution released to date. APT (Advanced Package Tool) tracks and resolves dependencies for every package in the system. It allows users to install complex package combinations (like, all of the X Window System) with just a few commands. The dependency tracking is so good, a Debian system can be upgraded between major releases without downtime or a reinstallation. This is something that distributions like RedHat have just picked up on (up2date) but Debian has been using for several years. Debian packages are easy to work with because they are built with standard tools .. one could build a Debian package with a text editor, "tar", and "ar". APT also gives you the convenience of binary packages for quick installation but the flexibility to build and optimize your own packages.

The Debian release cycle is very long, but with good reason. Debian always has 3 branches in developemnt: stable, testing, and unstable. All new development goes into unstable, including new packages, new versions of packages, and bug fixes. Once it is determined that the unstable branch is complete, there is a code freeze and the branch gets moved to testing. During the testing phase, only bug fixes are introduced into the branch, and all bug fixes go through unstable first. By time a particular branch makes it to the stable phase, it has been thoroughly tested and is rock solid. After it reaches stable, only security fixes and major bug fixes are allowed.

Personally, my first Linux experience involved Slackware 2.0 and RedHat 5.2 .. after spending 6 hours trying to upgrade Gnome on a RedHat 5.2 machine, I never wanted to look at an RPM again. I switched to Debian 5 years ago and have never looked back :) For the Linux hobbyists out there, I would recommend installing at least one Debian system just to test it out. It doesn't need to be much .. I ran a Debian mail server on a 486 with a 150MB hard drive for years.

-knightfoo

[charlie]

ok. i'm sold. i don't think i ever use the rpm package system anyways. it's such a pain in the ass, it's easier for me to just install everything by compiling from source.

so how do i migrate from my RH8 to debian. :D will there be some type of migration plan offered?

i don't mind having to have to sign up for a new server and then moving all the stuff, i just don't want to...

a) have any downtime of my sites
b) pay a setup fee for the new server
c) pay for the 1st month
d) be tied to any contracts

the whole point of this of course is for me to move my server, you know it'll take time to do the dns changes and move all the content and make sure all the apps are working. but if it takes longer than a month, then i should be charged. only makes sense. :cool: but i'm sure i can get it all done in a month easy.

it's probably better for you to try to move people this way anyway, seeing how RH wants everyone to upgrade the kernel so often. i've only been with SB for about 3 months i think and you already have 4 versions of RH that you support installations for. 2 of which are obsolete and 1 of which will be obsolete in a matter of a few months. i'm sure it'll save you guys a lot of support headaches later to move everyone to debian. actually, since i brought that up, why do you support new setups with such older revisions of RH? why not only offer the newest version for new setups, or at least only the last 2 versions?

oh... almost forgot. i really need to have a control panel like Cpanel for my users and such. I know there's not debian package with any CP and there's a discussion about it. But does this also mean you can't make a per request installation or license for it to the new debian server?

[charlie]

[bump]

[knightfoo]

Woops, this thread kind of got hidden. Sorry :)

There really is not a clean way to migrate a RedHat system to Debian without downtime. It can be done, but I would only recommend it to someone who has a lot of experience with both RedHat and Debian (particularly Debian package management) and Linux in general. I have personally migrated RedHat, Slackware, and Caldera systems to Debian with minimal hassle. If I can come up with a fairly safe way to do this without getting everyone mad at me, I might post a HowTo. :) You could do a 2 server migration by putting a second server online and moving your sites/apps over then moving DNS so the move is transparent. As for setup fees and the monthly cost, this is something you would have to work out with the sales department .. no guarantees though.

The main issue with people moving away from RedHat is their new support structure. RedHat 7.2, 7.3, and 8.0 will no longer be supported at the end of the year, so everyone who is tied to RedHat must upgrade to at least RedHat 9. It would not be so bad if RedHat version upgrades were not such a pain. We do offer everything from RedHat 7.2 to RedHat 9, and will probably do so until RedHat drops support for them.

cPanel currently has a beta version for Debian 3.0, which may be worth a try. Out of all the control panels, I would probably trust cPanel to build one that works properly on Debian. If you wish to install cPanel on your server, you can do so and we can provide the license. We would just mark your account as having a cPanel server and license your IP address .. you would have to pay the higher monthly rate for cPanel.

-knightfoo

[Nato]

I can identify with diffculties upgrading redhat. Going between the minor point releases (7.1-7.3) was alright, but trying to go to 8.0 caused me about half an hour of downtime. luckily, I was able to downgrade (something that I wasn't guaranteed, judging from all the sparse documentation).

Unlike in debian, Apache in RH 8.0 is Apache 2 - which has a completely different configuration syntax.

erg.... anyway, I'm not happy with RH's sudden decision to discontinue patches at the end of the year. It was then that I realized I didn't need large commercial interests making support decisions for my business - even if they were based on open source. I'll be migrating my other server in the next few months, with luck.

Debian's three branches, and their professionalism with quality control, are what I really need. If one branch breaks, chances are you can install the same stuff from another branch. No other operating system can boast that. Imagine if MS had three branches of Windows...

[knightfoo]

Right on. :) If you stick with the "stable" branch of Debian, you will probably never have any sort of breakage. Wonder when the "stable" branch of Windows will be released ..

http://66.139.79.168/hellsign.jpg

-knightfoo

[Marc Smith]

As I remember, someone told me cpanel does not work well on Debian. True or fable?

[QT]

Originally posted by Marc Smith
As I remember, someone told me cpanel does not work well on Debian. True or fable?
I commented on this in your other thread as well..

cPanel beta for Debian has been around for quite a while now and they're planning on a stable release for Debian by the end of the year. :)

I'm pretty sure it'll be working smoothly once they release it officially.

[Marc Smith]

Yeah - I'm jumping around quite a bit including between forums on other sites.

Thanks for the response.