ServerBeach Knowledge Base?

[QT]

I've seen it thrown around a few times on the forum and the more I thought about it, the more curious I became. I have a few questions and comments, along with a few questions that I've answered myself (for myself, personally) and I want to know what others think of the idea...if it'd be worth pursuing and pushing the idea or just a waste of valuable ServerBeach staff time that they could spend on other needs that we have.

I'm very curious to know how others think on this issue, so please put some thought behind your post (no drive-by, one-liners like "Yes, I want it!!" or "Yeah, it's a good idea!") and let's see what everyone thinks about it...brutal honesty is more than welcome. :)

Always searching for answers to my issues (on cPanel forums, Ensim Knowledge Base, other forums, Google), I've found that I can always find the answer I'm looking for. I get rather irritated at times because when I go to a knowledge base and type in a specific problem to search for, it brings up 100 other how-to's on everything related to anything other than what *I* searched for and after scrolling through 20 pages realizing that my answer wasn't there in the first place (how frustrating is that? :mad: ).

Now, I see a knowledge base full of things that pertain to a lot of questions that have been asked here...however...I also see new issues arising, new questions, and new answers. Is anyone from ServerBeach going to be able to keep the knowledge base up to date?

I also watched many people push for 3 letter searches, but still watch people post the same questions that have already been posted and/or answered regarding PHP, DNS, ASP, etc. If people don't use the search here, why would they use it in a knowledge base? Sometimes you can pull up a category here in a forum, and the first 5 posts on that page are all relating to the same thing, perhaps just worded differently, or sometimes even the same. It makes me wonder if the posters actually searched the forum to find their answers before they've created that thread, have they looked around other knowledge bases, did they search google? Did they just post because they wanted special personal attention to their issue? (And I'm not putting anyone down or insulting, these are legitimate thoughts I'm posting aloud).

At the same time, some people will go through a knowledge base...not understand a darn thing they read..and come back to this forum to ask their question and want step by step instructions on how they do it...which again...makes the knowledge base useless for them. Notice I said them, as I'm sure a ServerBeach Knowledge Base will be quite helpful to others if people at ServerBeach are able to keep it updated and the ones searching aren't looking for a personal, specific answer for their problem.

I personally think that some staff member may spend his/her time putting a knowledge base together that will in the end overcome the ability to remain updated on a continual basis. I'd much rather have a knowledge base persued once the ServerBeach staff has grown enough to handle the issues they have at hand and the employees working on keeping servers online and servers patched. I also think that this forum serves the purpose of that knowledge base on a personal level. But then again, that's just my $0.02.

So...what are your thoughts regarding a knowledge base?

For those wondering why I've put so much thought into starting a thread like this:

I have nothing else to do but think and I'm looking for conversation with a lot of thought put behind it...

OR

I'm actually someone who sits down and thinks a situation through before going on with a half-a$$ed implementation. ;)

Staff input welcome as well.

[altp]

If it were me setting up a knowledge base, I would start working on it from 2 simular directions.

1) Go through these forums and find the most frequently asked questions.

Answer them with detailed how-to's

2) take a redhat server, a debian server, and windows server and set them up as if they were a brand new box from scratch.

- These are the things you should do as soon as you get it.
- This is what you have to do to get X working
- This is what you have to do to get Y working

Things like: "What are all the steps needed to get sendmail working", or "What steps do i need to take to add another IP address to my server"

These are all things that are avialable with a little digging in webmin and a couple google searches. Unfortunately, most people are anti-research.

Another good one would be, "If XYZ doesn't work, how do i get more information about it" (i.e. where are the log files)

Start simple. Don't worry about keeping it updated at first. There are plenty of topics that will change very little over time. And many of these things will help new server-admins understand where to look for other problems.

And actually, keeping it up to date, and gathering information should be fairly painless. A good content management system (such as my personaly favorite, plone) would allow each staff member to take on a howto, write it, and submit it for approval for publishing. Staff member's could donate their lunch hour to write up a how-to (or at least those that are interested in working on it).

You'd also be surprised about how much understanding is lost because people don't know what tech-terms mean. Pointing tech-terms to dictionary.com or something might be helpful.

I am not, however, suggesting that work be duplicated. http://en.tldp.org/ has many, many wonderful howto's that are regularly maintained. There's already a how-to on how to compile a kernel from scratch. Great, you don't need to do that. just link to that howto. Instead, write a howto on how to use up2date to keep a system patched. Also, many howto's are HUGE, and intimidating for people not used to dealing with them. Getting them down to a simple list of steps might be a big help for some people that don't care to ever see that particular config again.

The thing is, most people will come to serverbeach.com for help before looking at google or tldp. Just telling them to google it, is bad business ... Pointing them to a document on your servers will give them that warm fuzzy feeling inside.

[QT]

Excellent! Thank you for your thoughts. :)

[knightfoo]

There are definitely pros and cons to having a knowledge base. We have tossed the idea around before and it basically comes down to the time it takes to maintain versus the actual benefit of having a knowledge base. In order to for a knowledge base to be effective it has to be comprehensive, covering a lot of topics in depth. The knowledge base also has to be accurate to be useful. Who is going to contribute to the knowledge base? Chances are, it would be mostly employees (namely support technicians) who are more useful when they are answering support tickets.

A knowledge base will only help those who know how to help themselves. A large majority of questions posted in the forums here have been answered in a knowledge base somewhere, but the poster obviously didn't bother to look for the answer. I've also noticed that most of the people asking for a knowledge base are those who already know how to find the answers, and the others who don't know how to find the answers probably won't be able to (or won't want to) use a knowledge base. Microsoft maintains a massive KB (Microsoft TechNet) that is free to access and covers nearly every problem or bug that Windows users commonly experience. They even have guides and articles on how to configure their software. Plesk, Ensim, and cPanel have their own support forums and knowledge bases as well with a lot of useful information about their products. The support techs here at ServerBeach use these knowledge bases all the time when trying to solve problems .. why do the work when someone else has already done it? Honestly, its really surprising that people will pay $15 or more to have someone else type some words into a search box. :)

A knowledge base would be useful for issues that may be specific to ServerBeach. A good example would be a step-by-step guide for configuring a ServerBeach server for X, Y, or Z. Other good topics would be how to move around MyServerBeach or use tools that only exist at ServerBeach.

-knightfoo

[OOagent137]

I also think the knowledge base (aka FAQ) would be a good idea.

1) It's been suggested before, so it's in demand.

2) It would be nice to have a newbie's list of common commands. I've kept one for myself that I picked up here on the forums. You see, newbie's don't always know about these commands and thus, if you don't know about something, you can't search for something. That's why you would need a document like "Common RedHat server commands" or something like that.

3) I for one would contribute. I think others would as well. Of course, that remains to be seen. Talk is cheap.

4) The FAQ could include answers to questions like this as well as HOWTOs:

Q. Does SB offer backup solution?

A. No. Its in the works, we're testing, no ETA.

[include links to relevant forum topics]

5) Being one that provides tech support, it's much easier to just give a link then to explain the same thing over and over again. Though it can be a pain to manage, the hardest part is getting started since most will be static content.

6) If it's documented elsewhere, link to it. Not that hard.

[knightfoo]

I don't even think people read the FAQ on our main website .. we constantly get questions sent to Sales and Support asking questions that are answered by the FAQ. I think the hardest part about implementing a knowledge base is getting people to use it. Like I said before, the people who will use it the most are those who don't really need it the most. I guess it would make it easier on Support, then we have one central place to find links to send to people. :)

-knightfoo

[altp]

2) It would be nice to have a newbie's list of common commands.


This is the type of thing that can be linked. This has been done so many times, it could just be wget'd from a site (after seeking the authors permission ;-)). Here's an example off a quick google search of what already exists:
Basic Linux Commands (http://www.jfroment.uklinux.net/shellcommands.html)


3) I for one would contribute. I think others would as well. Of course, that remains to be seen. Talk is cheap.


That all depends. Server beach is my hosting company because i give them money. Helping to contribute to a knowledge base in a formal manor would be donating my already stretched time. Being that I am a sysadmin at a university, I don't think i really want to donate my time in a formal manor. But, if they wanted to cut me a deal on my server in exchange for some help maintaining it, i might be interested ;-). (At a guess, most people are prolly in the same boat. Its one thing to answer questions in a forum once in a while, and get into a community. Its another to dedicate free time to a company).

Another issue with that is the quality of the howto's coming in. They would still have to be reviewed by someone for accuracy. At least quickly to make sure there isn't something like "rm * /foo/bar" instead of "rm /foo/bar/*" ;-)

Another possible problem is copyright. Who knows where John Doe got his howto. Did he copy it right offa the net? did he write it himself? There would prolly have to be some contract before you could allow the average user to work on it.


4) The FAQ could include answers to questions like this as well as HOWTOs:


That already exists, here (http://www.serverbeach.com/catalog/faq.php?SBSESSID=3beec31487362b35090cbe640af8e53b) . This falls into te category of not duplicating work.


There are definitely pros and cons to having a knowledge base.


Yes. Not only for your customers, but also serverbeach's tech staff. Solve a problem, write about it. Chances are another tech will need to solve the same problem.

If you write it up, chances are you will save some of that valuable tech-time because someone that searches the Knowledge base will find the solution.


I've also noticed that most of the people asking for a knowledge base are those who already know how to find the answers, and the others who don't know how to find the answers probably won't be able to (or won't want to) use a knowledge base.


This is true. Those that want the knowledge base want it because it is easier to find answers in one place than searching a ton of knowledge bases, or mailing lists, etc ... I've had 2 issues with setting up my server. 1 with ssl, and the other with SMTP. the ssl issue was on my local machines, the SMTP issue was easily solvable, once i found what i needed. It would be nice for someone to search for "smtp auth" and get a document on how to turn it on. Would have saved a lot of googling.

On the other hand, if someone asks a question that has a knowledge base writeup we could link to that in the forums. Ask them to use the information in the knowledge base, and post specific problems they have after that.

This would allow more time for important topics. Like Vi versus Emacs debates, or coming up with stupid little shell scripts that already exist in 100 other languages ;-).

[frankad_60]

A knowledge base is like a real estate in a lot of ways it's all about 3 things, Location, Location, Location. Pointing out that the information is out there in other KB's on other sites is moot. Time for all of us is precious. Jumping from site to site looking for a relevant answer takes time.

So it is not so much a matter of laziness but rather time constraints. Forums in and of themselves are not an adequate replacement for a solid KB. When I need a specific answer to a question searching forums for what sometimes amounts to piecemeal answers or worse incorrect information uses up valuable time. A knowledge base comes with a sense certainty that the information posted is accurate (even if not always up to date).

Forums are a source for opinion and specific advice not general knowledge and information (that may only be my own mis-informed perception but I am not alone). The problem with searching threads in a forum goes deeper than that. You may begin with a thread that looks promising because the original point was the same as your own only to find that as the question is refined the real issue was not yours or is too specific and focused.

With regard to Knightfoo's comment that he is amazed at how often people will pay $15 for an answer that is readily available elsewhere. Time is money! If I have to spend hours researching an issue the cost to me is far greater than $15 for a support ticket. I can always go back and learn the specifics when my time is not so tight and I can afford to learn the details that in the future will save me the $15.

Finally, as an example. I have searched for an answer to an issue regarding email notifcaiton not working in Ensim. I have searched the Ensim KB and forums as well as this one and not come accross an answer to my specific issue. I posted to the Ensim forum and this one days ago and have not gotten an answer. That is not a complaint but a statement of fact that points painfully to the larger issue of time.

I'm sure my issue has come up before for Ensim or SB techs a KB would address that issue and prevent me from having to spend $15. or post another redundant thread on this or any other forum.

[OOagent137]

altp....

That all depends. Server beach is my hosting company because i give them money. Helping to contribute to a knowledge base in a formal manor would be donating my already stretched time. Being that I am a sysadmin at a university, I don't think i really want to donate my time in a formal manor. But, if they wanted to cut me a deal on my server in exchange for some help maintaining it, i might be interested ;-). (At a guess, most people are prolly in the same boat. Its one thing to answer questions in a forum once in a while, and get into a community. Its another to dedicate free time to a company).

I agree. I wasn't talking about maintaining it, I was talking about contributing to it. Like, some people write HOWTOs in the forum, that sort of thing.

Maybe even have an advice section about whether a server is right for you or something along those lines. I wasn't intending to mean something that is maintained by a client of SB, I would think SB would need to manage and run it, just that some might contribute an answer or two.


Another issue with that is the quality of the howto's coming in. They would still have to be reviewed by someone for accuracy. At least quickly to make sure there isn't something like "rm * /foo/bar" instead of "rm /foo/bar/*" ;-)

Another possible problem is copyright. Who knows where John Doe got his howto. Did he copy it right offa the net? did he write it himself? There would prolly have to be some contract before you could allow the average user to work on it.

Right, we would have to have an SB tech check all the stuff for authenticity. Also, copyright would be the same (or maybe I'm wrong) if I posted a HOWTO from another source. So, I think that's an issue they are ready to deal with.


That already exists, here. This falls into te category of not duplicating work.

I was thinking more along the lines of combining the two.


Knightfooo....I hear you about the nobody reads the FAQ frustrations. That's what I sometimes think. It's tough to guage. However, if somebody reads the FAQ, why would they e-mail you a question that is answered in it? So it's a bit of a catch-22, but at least you can link and in some cases the customer doesn't feel outraged b/c they now know this info was available before signing up, so they screwed up by not doing their hw.

Frankad, I hear you about the location part! Time is money!

[Infopro]

Wouldn't something like this be very nice to have here?
http://www.codegrunt.com/index.php?num=2&f_id=1
And we all could help to add to it over time?
Just a thought.

I run a few sites, and I know that from my experience, people would rather ask than search. It can be annoying at times.
Problem seems to be, as mentioned above, finding the FAQ, and having it be acurate and easy to navigate.
Forums are great for information of course. But if the threads got lots of comments in it, the actual/best answer can sometimes get lost amongst the other comments.

I do feel that knightfoo's how to's are great. We need more of them.

[OOagent137]

I do feel that knightfoo's how to's are great. We need more of them.

I think that's something we would all like to see more of.

[JoshPet]

Maybe a "middle ground" to keep that type of reference material - should be the "How to" forum here - which constantly has the wrong stuff getting posted into it. Then at least people answering questions (if they are asked again) can post a link to the "how to" post.

You'd probably need some user-moderators to be able to edit that stuff to keep it current, as well as move the wrong stuff out of there to the correct forum.

They could also add stuff there if something useful were posted as a result of a thread somehwere - but could be edited down to an acutual "refference" how-to document.

I'd nominate QT for starters. ;)

<ducks in case she didn't want to be nominated for anything. :D )

[QT]

Originally posted by JoshPet
Maybe a "middle ground" to keep that type of reference material - should be the "How to" forum here - which constantly has the wrong stuff getting posted into it. Then at least people answering questions (if they are asked again) can post a link to the "how to" post.

Kind of like DNS, cPanel, Linux/Windows questions always wind up in the "General Comments & Suggestions" Forum? :p

Originally posted by JoshPet

You'd probably need some user-moderators to be able to edit that stuff to keep it current, as well as move the wrong stuff out of there to the correct forum.

Agreed, as it would probably be a constant battle for one person.

Originally posted by JoshPet

They could also add stuff there if something useful were posted as a result of a thread somehwere - but could be edited down to an acutual "refference" how-to document.


I think that's a great suggestion.


Originally posted by JoshPet

I'd nominate QT for starters. ;)

<ducks in case she didn't want to be nominated for anything. :D )

Thank you...
*throws popcorn at you* :p

[JoshPet]

he he

Does throwing popcorn count as nomination acceptance. :D

[Zeechi]

I just started using a FAQ Software called CascadianFAQ v3.2 Click here for their website (http://www.eclectic-designs.com/cascadianfaq.php)

It allows users to Submit their questions then the Admin can either disregard the question or post it to the FAQ. I really like the script.

I think a Jam Packed Faq would be great.

I have a question about the Plesk License that SB offers and I dont see it anywhere on the site. That is the kind of information that would be helpful.

[QT]

Originally posted by JoshPet
he he

Does throwing popcorn count as nomination acceptance. :D

Sure, if there was ever a need and a vote. :)

*shares her blueberry cream cheese breakfast bagel this morning*

To the others:

I appreciate the time you guys are taking when posting here. I see a lot of good replies with some real thought behind them, along with some excellent ideas.
Thanks guys. :)

Think The Beach is considering?